Birthright Citizenship

[Фoма]

That's why while other so called benefits are attractive NO immigrant can cling to them as an excuse to stay.

Oh, sure they can... and do all the time (unlike their baby's cvitizenship, which, to my knowledge, has never worked yet, not once). They claim that INS did not have right to raid their employer, or that they were arrested without a warrant, or that they were refused a legal representation...
Most of stay/cancellation of removal orders are due to these.

Here is one decision by O'Connor about whether or not to allow a terrorist the rights of a citizen of the USA.

We were talking about how baby citizens prevent illegal aliens from being deported, weren't we?
What the hell does this have to do with it?

This is a totally different issue. If the guy was born to a citizen, or to a PR, would it make him less of a terrorist, or what?
Perhaps, we need a law that would allow us to strip the traitors who fight against US on the enemy side off their citizenship, regardless of where or to whom they were born...
I would be all for such a law... But I don't see anything it has to do with the issue at hand.

[Bumazhka]

We were talking about how baby citizens prevent illegal aliens from being deported, weren't we?
What the hell does this have to do with it?.

Just to show how the judges apply the amendment even to terrorists that's all. Just like how they apply it to illegal aliens. It's called "cancellation of removal." If you're caught you can use it as a defense. How you can find out yourself. Here is an excerpt from one source :
"Of course, this is only a defense to deportation. The person can still be deported, but a young parent with a child born in the United States has a chance with this defense." http://www.teenparents.org/immigration.html
It's from Teenparents.... This defense is used all the time...

[Bumazhka]

Perhaps, we need a law that would allow us to strip the traitors who fight against US on the enemy side off their citizenship, regardless of where or to whom they were born... I would be all for such a law... But I don't see anything it has to do with the issue at hand.

What traitor? Nobody betrayed no country here. It just goes to show how insane the amendment is that's all. The guy didn't even live in US and yet they wanted to bring him here JUST because he was born here.

[Фoма]

What traitor? Nobody betrayed no country here.

Sure, he did. He is a terrorist, right? He is fighting against US on the side of its enemy.
That's treason.

It just goes to show how insane the amendment is that's all. The guy didn't even live in US and yet they wanted to bring him here JUST because he was born here.

But how would it be different if his father happened to have a GC at the time he was born?

[Bumazhka]

Sure, he did. He is a terrorist, right? He is fighting against US on the side of its enemy.
That's treason.

Nope, treason is when you betray. He didn't betray anything. He just happend to have been born here.

[Фoма]

Just to show how the judges apply the amendment even to terrorists that's all.

Not just thjis amendment though. The judges apply ALL THE LAWS to all people, including terrorists. You are not saying that because of that we should get rid of all the laws, are you? ;-)

It's called "cancellation of removal."

Cancellation of removal is just a judges decision to reverse a previous order to deport an alien. As such, it has nothing to do with the 14th amendment or whatever else.

In fact, as I said before, to my knowlege, there has not yet been issued a single cancellation of removal order based on the mere fact that the alien's baby was a citizen.

There are indeed tons of other reasons why these orders get canceled, but I never heard about this particular defense being successful.

Here is an excerpt from one source :

Nah... doesn't work. It says "you can use it as a defense" ... well, you can use almost anything as a defense....
But who says it will work. Find me a precedent - that would be a different story.

But even if you did ... think about it... hunderds of thousands of illegals, hunderds (0.1%!) of deportation orders, maybe tens, of attempts to appeal based on the citizen kid, let's say one successful, ok, two. BIG DEAL.

[Фoма]

Nope, treason is when you betray. He didn't betray anything. He just happend to have been born here.

What do you think "betray" means?
Fighting at war against your country perfectly qualifies.

[Bumazhka]

But how would it be different if his father happened to have a GC at the time he was born?

He would have been born from a legal alien. Then dispute all you want about what rights he does or doesn't have:confused:

[Bumazhka]

What do you think "betray" means?
Fighting at war against your country perfectly qualifies.

But it wasn't HIS country. He was just born here...:confused:

[Фoма]

He would have been born from a legal alien. Then dispute all you want about what rights he does or doesn't have:confused:

That's what I am saying... being born from a legal alien would not make him less of a terrorist or less of a traitor for that matter.

It's a different issue, as I said, perhaps we should be able to strip traitors or terrorists or whatever from their rights or their citizenship... I just don't see what it has to do with how or where they were born.

But it wasn't HIS country. He was just born here...:confused:

If he claims to be a citizen, it is.
That's what citizenship means.