A Curious Hypothetical

[seapig]

Thank you Floridian for an intelligent response to our inquiry. We simply are trying to understand why approx. 5% of callers (and a higher percentage of russian-speakers) cannot understand why we would ask for a consultation fee, while the other 95% simply respond with an answer such as "of course" or "no problem".

I believe that your reply addresses a common root of the problem, but it is easy to explain. An immigration law consultation is unique from many other legal consultations because, with a good immigration lawyer, the hardest work involves formulating a short-term and long-term strategy to address the needs of the client. For someone who is competent in immigration law, there is never such an easy answer to a client's question. Rather, consultations frequently last for more than an hour and involve many questions and answers and examinations of the document (not research, as some seem to think). A good attorney will examine all possible current and future options with the individual and explain each one to them. This takes time and requires expert knowledge and creativity on the part of the attorney. Once you determine a strategy, the execution is the easy part. This differs immensly from civil litigation (which is the most common situation where one sees free consultations). An immigration consultation involves more than simply applying the facts to one narrow legal concept and stating either "you have a case" or "you don't have a case". This is why it is very difficult to find an immigration expert who will provide a free consultation.

Thank you for your input.

So, what is your strategy for filing I-130 for your own mother (a nice middleaged Russian lady), if you are a US citizen, and you are making 90K a year with no other dependents?

[Дядя_Федор]

So, what is your strategy for filing I-130 for your own mother (a nice middleaged Russian lady), if you are a US citizen, and you are making 90K a year with no other dependents?

Деньги на бочку сначала! Тут Вам не здесь!...

[Floridian]

An immigration law consultation is unique from many other legal consultations.... For someone who is competent in immigration law, there is never such an easy answer to a client's question. .

Булшит. Юник... невер изи... ага.. Опытный юрист сразу за 5 минут знает сделает он этот кейс или нет и много ли усилий потребуется ему для этого. Не надо рассказывать сказки про "разработку стратегий". Стратегии юрист всегда потом успеет разработать...

Я сам потратил 100Х5=500 долларов на пять юристов, только чтобы услышать от них какой мол сложный кейс и как дорого это будет стоить. При попытке торговаться одна сцука заявила : "Денег не хватает? Разрешения на работу нет? Так иди и поработай нелегально как все, заработаешь и придешь". И за это она взяла 100 баксов. Убил бы... Жалею, что диктофона с собой не взял, уж я ее в Бар сдал бы за такие советы.

Это Америка. Правило простое: хочешь получить мой бизнес - понравься мне, докажи что ты лучше других, сделай скидочку, улыбнись - и такой иммиграционный офис будет процветать. Этому правилу могут не следовать только единицы, у которых бизнеса немеряно от референсов и они особо не заинтересованы - но таких подавляющее меньшинство...

[pkhlaw]

Dear Seapig:

If I understood you correctly, your hypothetical perfectly illustrates the issue. Believe it or not, while it may seem to a layperson that there is only one strategy for this type of situation, that is not correct. The strategy would depend on a number of factors, including how fast you want her in the country (if she is not yet in the country). In addition, whether or not she is in the country, I would never advise someone to file anything without a full review of her immigration history and immigration documents - in order to spot any red flags. I do not want to take the time to explain all of the potential issues that can come up. However, at the very least, the attorney should review the documents in person. Much too frequently an individual thinks that they know what their status is, but then a review of the documents reveal a different story. The growth of the internet has given some people just enough "knowledge" of immigration law to make them dangerous, so to speak.

I do not mean to offend anyone, but I am frustrated with number of consultations where the individual (or their attorney) didn't do things right the first time around and are now faced with removal proceedings. While we earn more money for removal cases, we would much rather help these individuals from the beginning and avoid removal proceedings altogether. I turned to you not to argue, but rather to get some insight into this mentality so that we can better explain why we require a consultation fee in most cases.

Finally, your hypo is not very realistic because by experience has been that a person with $90K income would likely understand the value of professional legal advice and wouldn't turn their back on it over a small consultation fee. I have also noticed that those that do not initially want to pay a consultation fee are more likely to have the most problematic cases. For example, they may have trouble satisfying the income requirements, they may have filed documents in the past and didn't retain copies of what they filed - let alone be able to explain what they filed, or they do not reveal all of the facts until they have hired you, etc. Perhaps they themselves are skeptical that they will have any options and therefore are very worried about "wasting" their money.

Thank you for your input.

[Floridian]

pkhlaw, да защищайте Вы свое право брать consultation fee all you want, это свободная страна, только вот Вы же сами видите что большое количество русских не хочет в Ваш офис идти как только слышат о деньгах апфронт. Если хотите получить русский бизнес - придется немного перестроиться, а если не хотите - так никому хуже не станет.
Блин, Вам для заполнения 130-й формы в простейшей ситуации еще и "стратегия" требуется. Продолжайте вешать лапшу на уши своим клиентам, продолжайте...

I do not want to take the time to explain all of the potential issues that can come up.

Да-да, и именно это они все приговаривали, кладя в карман МОЮ сотку.

[Дядя_Федор]

Блин, Вам для заполнения 130-й формы в простейшей ситуации еще и "стратегия" требуется. Продолжайте вешать лапшу на уши своим клиентам, продолжайте...

Ну так как же без стратегии...
Форму на столе расс-стелить -- раз!
Ручку открыть -- два!
Задуматься -- три!
Выписать клиенту билл -- четыре!.. :D

[Baghera]

О! Смотри-ка, по русски заговорил! :Д А зачем на меня наезжал? ;)
Ну, если кто-нибудь еще кроме Флоридиана скажет, что хотел бы видеть твою ветку в иммиграции, я передвину ее обратно. Но больше ругаться не надо.

Ладно, фиг с тобой, будем считать Багиру вторым голосом. С переездом.

Не надо меня никем/ничем считать, please.

[Дядя_Федор]

Не надо меня никем/ничем считать, please.

Багиру -- вычеркиваем!

[Baghera]

Багиру -- вычеркиваем!

Пасиб
А то если я начну спорить здесь, то не остановлюсь - я в корне не согласна со многими высказываниями в этой темке :rolleyes:

[pkhlaw]

The root of the problem seems to be a serious mistrust of lawyers. Certainly, a mere $100 cannot be the issue (anyone would have to honestly admit that it is a bargain for an answer that you can rely on). Moreover, the replies here seem to indicate that you mistrust an attorney who charges a consultation fee more than an attorney who is willing to provide legal advice to anyone who calls at no charge (this is typically the work of legal clinics and other non-profits that assist low-income individuals). Why would any other attorney be willing to do that? While there may be some good attorneys who don't charge consultation fees, it seems to me that in many cases it is because they will not spend enough time to provide competent and thorough legal advice and/or they they are desperate for the work. Therein may lie the root of your poor experience with attorneys. It seems to me that choosing an attorney based on who is most accessible and least expensive is a dangerous proposition. Referrals (whether personal or professional) are the best means to finding a competent attorney.

I realized before I posted that this would be a contentious topic based on the amount of free "legal advice" that flies around this forum. Nevertheless, I have enjoyed the exercise and appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts. Perhaps your readers will use their own judgment to learn something from this exchange. Finally, I think you are wrong to attribute your attitude to all russian-speakers. The majority of my clients are russian-speakers, and they all paid a small consultation fee without any complaints. Based on my experience, you are in the minority. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best of luck. Shastlivo druzia.