PPO vs. HMO

[Манюня]

(моды, прастите за английский, я пытаюсь уж и на русском, и на английском, но по моему все старания тут напрасны)

[elfy]

nope, it does not say that, read the law

the law is entitled something like "Donation of Prescription Drugs to County Repositories"

it does not say it is the only way drugs can be donated in California

the other link gathers all known laws on drug donation - it does not say these are the only ways drugs can be donated, these are just the only laws issued on the subject, which does NOT make any other kind of donation illegal

http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/H...5/Default.aspx идем по ссылке:

в самом верху:

State Prescription Drug Return, Reuse and Recycling Laws

scroll down to California, click on the link under the state name:
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bil..._sen_comm.html

читаем: Prescription drugs: collection and distribution program

SUMMARY

This bill would authorize a county to establish, by local
ordinance, a repository and distribution program for the
purposes of distributing surplus unused medications,
donated by specified entities, to persons in need of
financial assistance.

дальше, между так страницами 3 и 4, читаем:

At a minimum, the
county must ensure that:
Only those drugs that are received and
maintained in their unopened, tamper-evident
packaging are dispensed;

Any drugs received have not been adultered,
misbranded, or stored under conditions contrary to
standards set by the United States Pharmacopoeia or
the product manufacturer;

Any drugs received are dispensed prior to their
expiration date; Reasonable methods have been established to
ensure that drugs received have not been in the
possession of any individual member of the public; A pharmacist may use his or her discretion and
best judgment in deciding whether or not to accept
any donated drug; and,

Records are kept for at least three years from
the date that any drug is received or dispensed,
whichever is later.

[elfy]

again, you are quoting the law that covers a very specific way of donation, it does NOT say no other kind of donation is allowed

I can say this another 100 times, but, unfortunately, I don't think you are going to get it

sorry, I really tried

the law covers how prescription drugs may be donated, period.
it tells you that a special repository must be established (otherwise, you can't just accept drugs) and certain requirements must be met and restrictions complied with.

The fact that that specially created under law repository must not accept drugs from a member of the public is also a law that governs the program of drug collection in your state

I tried, too, Manunya:rolleyes:

[elfy]

(моды, прастите за английский, я пытаюсь уж и на русском, и на английском, но по моему все старания тут напрасны)

так зачем стараться отстаивать то, в чем ты неправа
неважно, на каком языке...
закон, отменяющий запрет на принятие драгз от индивидов, в вашем штате еще не принят - так что пока что under current law, members of public are restricted from donating drugs, and repositories are not allowed to accept drugs from them

[Манюня]

Елфи, прости, но дальнейшая дискуссия никчему не приведёт

я не умею deal with laymen when it comes to legal issues, I deal with judges, and any judge would instantly get a simple point about certain conduct being outside the coverage of a specific statute as not regulated by that statute

I tried to explain with analogies, I tried to explain in English and in Russian...I guess you DO need to go to law school when it comes to elementary concepts like that

так что let's agree to disagree

[elfy]

Елфи, прости, но дальнейшая дискуссия никчему не приведёт

я не умею deal with laymen when it comes to legal issues, I deal with judges, and any judge would instantly get a simple point about certain conduct being outside the coverage of a specific statute as not being regulated by that statute

так что let's agree to disagree

ок:v:

последний вопрос, можно? а судья, когда видит, что один из адвокатов ошибается, но все равно стоит на своем, сразу ему об этом говорит, или слушает вежливо, а потом уже решает дело не в его пользу? :crz:

[Манюня]

в последний раз - и это будет мой final post in this thread

this is what California law does: "The law authorizes a county to establish, by ordinance, a repository and distribution program to provide surplus unused medications to people in need of financial assistance to ensure access to necessary pharmaceutical therapies." http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0045.htm

it does no more than that...what it DOES NOT DO is to prohibit any other kind of conduct, including any kind of other drug donation

all it does is establish a procedure for drug donation without designating it as being the exclusive way of donation

unless there is a law in California that says you can only donate drugs this way, through this particular program -- and there is currently no such law - the conduct we are discussing is perfectly legal

[FOLEY]

in terms of personal freedoms and choices, PPO is "hands down" the best choice, but one has to also consider who will be the beneficiary of the plan and what kinds of costs, deductibles and limits exist within each plan.

[Манюня]

последний вопрос, можно? а судья, когда видит, что один из адвокатов ошибается, но все равно стоит на своем, сразу ему об этом говорит, или слушает вежливо, а потом уже решает дело не в его пользу?

я там пообещала что будет файнал, но хорошо - на это отвечу

у судьи, Елфи, если он считает что кто то неправ - есть аргументы...судья никогда не будет тыкать в [statute] которая is designed to apply to certain kind of situations and insist that it applies to something broader than that...it would be a manifest judicial error

this is because statutes are construed narrowly (this is an elementary principle of statutory construction), and judges are not allowed to usurp the legislative role of creating law

the only valid argument in this situation would be if a judge whipped out the law that said: "listen up, Californians, you can only donate drugs this way, and no other way"

any other outcome would be reversed on appeal ;)

[elfy]

in terms of personal freedoms and choices, PPO is "hands down" the best choice, but one has to also consider who will be the beneficiary of the plan and what kinds of costs, deductibles and limits exist within each plan.

спасибо, фоли:v:
я пока еще не знаю всех деталей, мне должны прислать буклет с описанием, так что посмотрю про deductibles, etc.