оружие

[смешно]

Не, я понимаю, что вставить свои 5 центов - это необходимость для тебя, но за эксперта ты не катишь...

я курсы здесь проходил, так эксперты нам говорили, так что верь наслово.

[Kadet]

я курсы здесь проходил, так эксперты нам говорили, так что верь наслово.

Да понятно... про курсы... А может, стрелять надо получше?

[Donat]

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/pigboard.html

The Pig Board II
Bruce L. Jones
Program Manager Infantry Weapons
USMC - Pacific Theater
October 13, 1998



Re: Law Enforcement/Military Cartridge Effectiveness Study
Conducted 1995 - 1996



In the recent past, performance tests were conducted to determine the ballistic effects of different weapons and ammunition on flesh and bone targets, living and dead, and to determine the efficacy of different types and designs of body armor in defeating the threats presented by these projectiles.

The following information was taken from the personal notes of an experienced law enforcement observer in the field of forensics from a large western law enforcement agency.

The final reports were proprietary to armor manufacturers who funded the research as well as being classified as proprietary/ confidential by certain government agencies that placed a gag order on distributing data from the report. The report itself can't be distributed, however, the individual mentioned above was under no such constraint to not discuss what he saw and wrote down in his personal notes.

It should be noted that on at least two other different occasions in the past, the U.S. Army has conducted similar tests on unarmored subjects. The first of these was a handgun test in conducted in 1904 that resulted in the adoption of the .45ACP cartridge as the military standard and the second was convened in June of 1928 and dubbed the “Pig Board” due to it's use of pigs as test subjects. The purpose of the Pig Board was to determine the most effective cartridge for use in military rifles against human targets. That exercise resulted in the identification of a .276 caliber (approximate 7mm) high velocity bullet as the optimum choice. That choice was not put into practice, although the M1 Garand was developed in a working model for it, because a high ranking general of the time (General Douglas MacArthur) insisted on using the already developed .30/06 cartridge; which was more powerful anyway. Thus the Army adopted the M1 Garand in .30/06 caliber, which was later changed to the .308 caliber. The .308 caliber approximated the results of the .276 in a larger diameter projectile. This choice was probably precipitated by the popular manufacture of commercial weapons in the .308 caliber.(1)

In the current modern test instance, tests were conducted on human cadavers, live pigs and ballistic gelatin, both unprotected and protected by modern body armor. Test weapon types were rifles, shotguns and pistols. There was about fourteen months of research conducted.

(Note: Cadaver research is common, as Coroners and Medical Examiners receive hundreds of unclaimed cadavers or donated ones that are unsuitable for the usual medical research. They are then used for other forms of research with Medical examiner and/or coroner approval. Cadavers are tested with respect, the faces and bodies covered, only the area tested is exposed. After use, the Coroner examines tissue damage to gage injury, wound channels, secondary projectiles, armor failure or internal injury from vest success with high energy projectile stops).

The research was conducted in phases:

Rifles, shotguns and then handweapons, in that order.
Cadavers with body armor.
Cadavers without body armor.
Live pigs with body armor.
Live pigs w/o body armor.
Testing confirmed that in most instances the lighter Hollow Point (HP) projectiles (.380, 9mm, .40 cal.) open prematurely or do not open at all, the HP cup filling with target medium, turning itself into lighter ball ammo, or the HP projectile takes a different path from the flight path upon entering the target medium, resulting in non lethal hits or lesser wounds than intended due to deflection of the projectile from the unstable HP cup reacting to hydrostatic pressure from impact with the target medium (veering off course, so to speak).(2)

Heavier Ball ammo (any round of 200gr weight or greater) such as .45ACP 230 gr., .44 Special 246 gr., .45 LC 255 gr., .38 Special 200 gr. LRN,(3) all followed the intended flight path, even upon hitting bone. These projectiles gave the best observed handgun performance in creating damage that would be consistent with producing incapacitation of a human target with the fewest possible shots fired. They also did not exit the cadaver torso as the energy was invariably shed in the target, leaving no apparent energy for over-penetration and exit(4). Exit wounds did occur with face shots, head shots and extremities, face shots causing imparting of secondary velocity to teeth and chunks of bone, creating secondary fragment projectiles.

In terminal ballistics, all HP's of the same approximate weight and approximate velocity are equal in performance. Velocities in handguns are essentially insufficient to provide predictable opening when necessary or desired in human targets. The most effective HP's in .45ACP are those that retain the original weight of 230 gr. as they will continue to function as well as ball ammo, whether they open or not.

Testing was also done on a comparison of handgun ammunition between hard cast lead, swaged lead and semi-jacketed soft point to FMJ. Testing was only done to examine the types of wounds produced, not for armor protection as none of those projectiles in handgun loads, including .44 Magnum and .454 Casull can penetrate level IIA or III body armor. Hard alloy lead (like linotype metal) performed somewhat like FMJ and bored straight through. To be exact, #2 Lyman chilled 230 gr. .45's were tested on cadavers and they duplicated FMJ results. Softer lead gave surprising results(5), in that it deformed on impact but pushed ahead through bone and flesh and shed its velocity and energy quicker, stopping 3 to 5 cm earlier than FMJ. In other words, it produced a MORE violent stopping effect than harder leads. This result also duplicates the Army findings from the 1904 tests. It is problematic for modern law enforcement use, however, as soft lead does not feed reliably in semi-automatic pistols. It's use is outstanding, however, in revolvers as there is no feed travel problem.

Further tests with handgun projectiles custom made of steel or brass drill rod or solid copper rod with a slight truncated cone shape and fired at magnum velocities penetrated level IIA vests and damaged and compromised the level III. These loadings were in .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum.

In defeating armor, the lighter, less than common 7.62x25 Tokarev in it's high velocity variant (Czech round for the vz52 at 1700fps) can penetrate earlier versions of body armor, but newer level IIA will stop it. In the unprotected body, it tends to penetrate on a straight line, as did the old .357 pointed ball, sold in the 50's through the 80's, but does less damage along it's path than the heavier bullets.

Tests indicated that longarm (rifle/shotgun) torso wounds on unarmored targets from modern cartridges are devastating except for the M193 5.56x45mm Ball and similar projectiles which required multiple hits to create lethal stop damage.

Using body armor, no existing body armor except IIA and III levels with ceramic inserts or laminate inserts will stop high-power rifle rounds such as 30-30 or 7.62x39mm Russian. As an example, level III was penetrated by a 30-30 loaded with a 150 gr. PBT (Pointed Boat Tail), while a 150 gr. Soft Point did not penetrate the vest. In either case the wearer would have been injured.

Ceramic and laminate inserts will stop even 30-06 Armor Piercing (AP) projectiles. Curiously, German 7.92mm AP Ball has the greatest range of effective penetration potential of all the standard military calibers. Probably due to the higher sectional density of the heavy 198 gr. 7.92mm bullet.

Under 50-75 yds most AP is no more effective than regular rounds as it has not developed critical velocity/energy for penetration. From 125 out to 250 yards, penetration is almost guaranteed. This occurs as the high velocity AP projectile is still gaining speed(6) and stability out to 125 yards or more.

......

[Laureen]

Должен ли человек иметь право на личное боевое оружие ?

Не должен. Слишком много психов развелось.

Им не только оружие, но и детский пистолет

доверять опасно. :34: :twisted:

.

[wlass]

Не должен. Слишком много психов развелось.

Им не только оружие, но и детский пистолет

доверять опасно. :34: :twisted:

.

эти психи, как правило, быстро вылечиваются, если им пистолетом погрозить. А то пользуются тем, что людям запрещено оружие носить.

[In2HiDef]

Не, я понимаю, что вставить свои 5 центов - это необходимость для тебя, но за эксперта ты не катишь...

1.смотримся в зеркало
2. 5 копеек, но 2 цента. Американская эквивалентная поговорка про 2 цента.
3. Для Смешно – не тупой патрон, а пустоголовый (hollowpoint). "Тупой" это про что–то другое, гггг.

[Kadet]

1.смотримся в зеркало
2. 5 копеек, но 2 цента. Американская эквивалентная поговорка про 2 цента.
3. Для Смешно – не тупой патрон, а пустоголовый (холлощпоинт). "Тупой" это про что–то другое, гггг.

1. и что?
2. эт понятно, тока я его пост в 5 центов оценил - 2 - все же маловато будет..
3. так мнение экспертов будет, или так и продолжим?

[In2HiDef]

1. и что?
3. так мнение экспертов будет, или так и продолжим?

По–моему, ты пришел погадить в тему, сказать людям, что они ничего не понимают, а ты такой умный.
Вот ты скажи, как много ты лично стрелял (не из рогатки, и не из трубочки жеваной бумагой)?

[Kadet]

По–моему, ты пришел погадить в тему, сказать людям, что они ничего не понимают, а ты такой умный.
Вот ты скажи, как много ты лично стрелял (не из рогатки, и не из трубочки жеваной бумагой)?

Гадить - не мое хобби... Так что с этим - к кому-то другому....
А в каких единицах определяется понятие "много"? Все же в мире относительно: для кого-то десяток патронов на школьном занятии - уже много... для другого и тысяча - мало...

[In2HiDef]

А в каких единицах определяется понятие "много"? Все же в мире относительно: для кого-то десяток патронов на школьном занятии - уже много... для другого и тысяча - мало...

Простой вопрос был! А как сложно ответить!
Может потому, что последним увиденным оружием был макет АК47 на уроке патриотического воспитания?