Birthright Citizenship

[Bumazhka]

That is correct - Indians are indeed not subject to US jurisdiction - they are goverened by their autonomous and sovereign tribes.
They are therefore not entitled to the citizenship by letter of the 14th amendment.

You crack me up, Foma!:D So I take it you agree with it…

If kids born to the Indian parents, wishing to acquire US citizenship and who had been here for centuries were not subject to the US jurisdiction then how foreigners from other countries are made subject to it?

Here’s the statement explaining the decision of 1884:

The jurisdiction requirement “put it beyond doubt that all persons, white or black, and whether formerly slaves or not, born or naturalized in the United States, and owing no allegiance to any alien power, should be citizens of the United States... The evident meaning of [the jurisdiction requirement] is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.”

This justice simply held close to the same interpretation of another case of 1873. Notice how the term “jurisdiction “ excluded foreigners in 1873: “the jurisdiction requirement was intended to exclude from [the Citizenship Clause’s] operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign states born within the United States.”

The Hamdi case gave hope to some that sooner or later the original intent of the amendment will be restored through the “court” since at least two justices didn’t agree with the opinion of O’Connor.

That’s why now when she’s retiring it’s important for them to put more conservative judges.

But off course many think that even better than having it restored through courts would be a “change” clause to the amendment. It would leave no room for ambiguities for future courts and put an end to “citizenship entitlement by birth” once and for all.

[Фoма]

If kids born to the Indian parents, wishing to acquire US citizenship and who had been here for centuries were not subject to the US jurisdiction then how foreigners from other countries are made subject to it?

How they are subject to it? Did you read the definition?
Jurisdiction is the power to exercize authority. They can be arrested, put on trial, their property can be confiscated, they are obligated to pay taxes etc... this is jurisdicition.
And yes, they are subject to it.

The indians on the other hand were specifically excluded from the US jurisdiction, they have status similar to foreign diplomats, who, as you know, are not under US jurisdiction either.

[Bumazhka]

You see Foma now we're getting closer to the truth, aren't we?;)

Maybe "all" did not mean "all" back then...or, maybe "persons" meant something different from what it means now (after all, we all know that "men" in "all mean are created equal" was really meant to be "white male", don't we? )

So then the 14th amendment by saying "ALL" didn't really mean all after all?
As hopefully you can see now the amendment by "ALL" wasn't supposed to include poor indians, right?
Only the ones subject to "the jurisdiction thereof".

How they are subject to it? Did you read the definition?
The indians on the other hand were specifically excluded from the US jurisdiction, they have status similar to foreign diplomats, who, as you know, are not under US jurisdiction either.

...The phrase 'subject to its jurisdiction' excluded from its operation 'children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States.'

The only thing I don't understand here is how come foreign diplomats are listed here as "specifically excluded" and not under the amendment and indians aren't?

Let's see how the judge here interprets the 14th amendment, shall we?

"...not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.'

You see by this judge, it's according to the 14th amendment that indians are excluded from citizenship just like diplomats and foreigners. :-)

[Bumazhka]

didn't mean to post here, sorry...:-)

[Фoма]

So then the 14th amendment by saying "ALL" didn't really mean all after all?

I was being sarcastic. Of course "all" means "all"... unless you are from some kind of alternate reality, with inverteg logic

As hopefully you can see now the amendment by "ALL" wasn't supposed to include poor indians, right?
Only the ones subject to "the jurisdiction thereof".

Right. All, subject to judirsdiction.
Exactly.

The only thing I don't understand here is how come foreign diplomats are listed here as "specifically excluded" and not under the amendment and indians aren't?

I have no idia what it is you are citing, and cannot speak for the author of that quote. I have no idea why you are asking me for the reasons why somebody esle wrote what they wrote.
I can only guess, that they did not intend to list all possible classes of people not subject to jursdiction, but rather just provided some examples.

Anyway... if you insist on your interpretation of the word "jurisdiction", you must agree then that you children born in the US should no become citizens.
Do you agree with that or not?