Greencard via Employment

[Yunna]

Я получаю свой [bachelor] дегрее в мае 2010 года, будучи на F-1 статусе. Вопрос - может ли работодатель подать на оформление зеленой карти по категории ЕB-3 без всей котовасии с [H1B] и т.п. ?

[Alex_3112]

Я получаю свой [bachelor] дегрее в мае 2010 года, будучи на F-1 статусе. Вопрос - может ли работодатель подать на оформление зеленой карти по категории ЕB-3 без всей котовасии с [H1B] и т.п. ?
Теоретически - да. А практически - как вы будете поддерживать статус?

[Yunna]

Теоретически - да. А практически - как вы будете поддерживать статус?

Тогда еще вопрос - сколко занимает примерно етот процесс?

[Yunna]

Тогда еще вопрос - сколко занимает примерно етот процесс?

Я нашла - 4-7 лет... хмм то есть [h1b] ето больше временная подушка для ожидания зеленой карти, так?

[Amex1]

Я получаю свой [bachelor] дегрее в мае 2010 года, будучи на F-1 статусе. Вопрос - может ли работодатель подать на оформление зеленой карти по категории ЕB-3 без всей котовасии с [H1B] и т.п. ?

That's extreeeeeeeeeeeeeemly difficult!..........

H-1B дается тем, у кого МИНИМУМ - M.S. So, just forget it!

После окончания американского ВУЗа, однако, Вам должен быть предоставлен OPT (Optional Practical Training) на период до 1 года. Когда я подавал (в начале десятилетия), продлить OPT было невозможно. Нужно было мне заказывать в свое время J-1 (там - целых три года OPT, но... what's done is done!) Anyway... Для подачи на него необходимо лишь job offer (у Вас таковое есть) Но, боюсь, когда оно истечет, с B.S. Baм H-1B просто не дадут (в смысле the case will be denied). B самом деле, EB-3 is your only option, except... You will probably not manage in time to get I-140 approved: it will take well over a year! But since 2002 you may apply for Adjustment of Status (I-485) CONCURRENTLY with any other immigration petition (I-140, I-130, I-129 etc.) Filing I-485 will entitle you for an EAD (Employment Authorization Document) card, i.e. you will be able to work while your application is being processed!

So, the problem may be solved. Just talk to a lawyer (for I am NOT the one: I can merely outline my own thoughts based on my personal experience, which is quite profound, I assure you!)

[easy]

H-1B дается тем, у кого МИНИМУМ - M.S.

Это не верно.

[elfy]

Это не верно.

100% неверно
хотя, с master's ее получить легче, так как там своя квота отдельная

[Amex1]

Это не верно.


Да, технически, конечно, неверно (Advanced Degrees непосредственно требуются только в Immigration petitions на EB-1, EB-2, NIW, Allien of Extraordinary Abilities, etc.), но принимая во внимание, что число work-eligible B.S.-holders в США куда больше, чем M.S. и Ph.D.-holders вместе взятых, убедить Иммиграционные Власти США в том, что не могли найти qualified work-eligible B.S. holder на место beneficiary the application is filed on behalf of будет НАМНОГО СЛОЖНЕЕ, и соответственно, вероятность denial-а будет КУДА ВЫШЕ. Я ведь знаю даже случаи отказа в H-1B тем, у кого Ph.D. - что уж говорить о вообще NON-advanced degrees!

[easy]

100% неверно
хотя, с master's ее получить легче, так как там своя квота отдельная

в этом году не так все напряженно с квотой. Вполне может успеть.

[easy]

... но принимая во внимание, что число work-eligible B.S.-holders в США куда больше, чем M.S. и Ph.D.-holders вместе взятых, убедить Иммиграционные Власти США в том, что не могли найти qualified work-eligible B.S. holder на место beneficiary the application is filed on behalf of будет НАМНОГО СЛОЖНЕЕ, и соответственно, вероятность denial-а будет КУДА ВЫШЕ.


по-моему это уже не Ваша забота...

[Amex1]

по-моему это уже не Ваша забота...

Look: a person is asking for advice, and I am trying to do MY BEST to help. Of course, the decision is up to this person. As the matter of fact, I advized to talk to a lawyer who will definitely know BETTER which route to pursue.

What's more expected from me? Well, I apologize for being incorrect technically, but still, I stand by what I said about TREMENDOUS difficulty seeking H-1B without even M.S.! For God's sake, you can't always get it when you have a Ph.D.! Will it make you happy if the person applies for H-1B anyway and gets 9-1 rejection chance???

[Alex_3112]

What's more expected from me? Well, I apologize for being incorrect technically, but still, I stand by what I said about TREMENDOUS difficulty seeking H-1B without even M.S.!
Thremendous or not, но каждый год в штаты приезжают десятки тысяч бакалавров работать по H1. Во-первых успех зависит от опыта (резюме) более, чем от степени. А во вторых, за все мои годы в IT я еще ни разу не видел, чтобы DOL "зарезал" правильно составленное заявление.

[Amex1]

, за все мои годы в IT я еще ни разу не видел, чтобы DOL "зарезал" правильно составленное заявление.

I was not talking about DOL; I was talking about USCIS. These are two different Government Institutions, and approval by DOL only means that USCIS will consider it, but the decision may be either positive or negative. And denials with the explanation: "Failed to establish unavailability of a candidate with US work-eligiblility to fill in the position open" are TYPICAL, especially for non-advanced degree candidates (B.S., B.A. etc.)

With Ph.D. and M.S. the denial explanations are usually different.

[elfy]

I was not talking about DOL; I was talking about USCIS. These are two different Government Institutions, and approval by DOL only means that USCIS will consider it, but the decision may be either positive or negative. And denials with the explanation: "Failed to establish unavailability of a candidate with US work-eligiblility to fill in the position open" are TYPICAL, especially for non-advanced degree candidates (B.S., B.A. etc.)

With Ph.D. and M.S. the denial explanations are usually different.

what are the reasons for denials in their cases? (just curious)

[Alex_3112]

I was not talking about DOL; I was talking about USCIS. These are two different Government Institutions, and approval by DOL only means that USCIS will consider it, but the decision may be either positive or negative. And denials with the explanation: "Failed to establish unavailability of a candidate with US work-eligiblility to fill in the position open"
This is only an indication of sloppy job done by company lawyers (if there were any). If there was any substantial percentage of denials, then, in previous years, after H1-B cap was reached, it would be subsequently reopen (because of denials). But that was not the case.

[Amex1]

what are the reasons for denials in their cases? (just curious)

Well, "insufficient level of qualification", "mismatching experience", "irrelevant skills", etc.

[Amex1]

This is only an indication of sloppy job done by company lawyers (if there were any).

Perhaps.


If there was any substantial percentage of denials, then, in previous years, after H1-B cap was reached, it would be subsequently reopen (because of denials). But that was not the case.


No, there wouldn't. Look, they have a guideline to admit AS FEW immigrants as possible. Providing, of course, they can furnish appropriate reasoning for supervising officers. Thus, if there is ANY room for denial, they use it. And the numbers mean UPPER limits. Not lower! They can't issue greater number of visas, but they most certainly can issue smaller numbers.

And just for the record: in Clinton's times, ca 2000, an H-1B visa issued to a non-qualified individual would return into the applocation pool. After September 11, 2001, this practice was ceased. For it was just a guideline - NOT a rule or a regulation, much less the law! So, its practicing was up to the Executive Bransh of Power only. And they stopped doing it when they no longer felt like it.

Does this answer your question?

Bottom line: the US Government do not accept immigrants because they want to. They do so because the HAVE TO. For whatever reasons.

[Alex_3112]

And just for the record: in Clinton's times, ca 2000, an H-1B visa issued to a non-qualified individual would return into the applocation pool. After September 11, 2001, this practice was ceased. For it was just a guideline - NOT a rule or a regulation, much less the law!
The Cap is the law.
USCIS may not feel the obligation to actually fill the cap, but in 2006-2008 many applications were not even accepted. If actual number of H1-B "cap" visas was significantly lower than 65K, the uproar in corporate community would have been terrible. However, I heard no such thing. Did you?

And, by the way, what is the source of your information (After September 11 ...)?

Let me recite my own experience - in 100s of H1 IT petitions there were virtually no denials. True, there were some tough RFEs, but if company and its lawyers are working together, USCIS has no grounds for "Failure to establish unavalibility" denial.

[Elric]

Аригинально...толпы индусов и китайцев с дипломом бакалавра получают [H-1B] из года в год а тут магистратуру требуют. обламывают не на основе диплома а на основе наличия, точнее остуствия оного, специалистов в определённой сфере. кого волнует ваш диплом если компании нужен специалист SAP и знанием суахили?

[Amex1]

The Cap is the law.

Yes, as mandated by the Congress, BUT... 65,000 is the UPPER limit. No more. There is no limit on "not less than"!


USCIS may not feel the obligation to actually fill the cap, but in 2006-2008 many applications were not even accepted.

A friend of mine was applying in 2008... Well, the firm on his belalf was. They MAILED the application on May 2, whereas the cup had ALREADY been filled as of April 29.


If actual number of H1-B "cap" visas was significantly lower than 65K, the uproar in corporate community would have been terrible.

And who gave the crap?!! George W.???


However, I heard no such thing. Did you?

The corporates are unhappy with the H-1B visa situation WHATEVER the limit is - 65K or 120K. They want the cap GONE. Period.

The majority of Americans, especially those who don't know that more than half of the scientists involved in the Manhattan Prroject were NOT originally from the US, want ALL foreigners, even married to US Citizens (like myself) gone. Period.

So, NO MATTER what the limist are, there WILL BE "uproars" from EITHER side. Just GET USED TO IT already!


And, by the way, what is the source of your information (After September 11 ...)?

Oh, don't get me started... Every time I walked into the Foreign Office of the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego I was at between 2001 and 2003, I was "greeted" with a phrase: "After September 11, 2001..." It was to tell me that they won't willing to do a thing for me, unless you push them hard.

Of all States, Texas, the "reddest" State, has been the friendliest toward me and other foreigners. In California, the "most blue" State, they just wanted ALL foreigners gone. So, GO FIGURE who likes immigrants - the Republicans or the Democrats...


Let me recite my own experience - in 100s of H1 IT petitions there were virtually no denials.

What field? Were advanced degrees in such field typical?

In Chemistry (that I can totally speak of) even for an M.S. person it's hard to secure H-1B; for B.A. or B.S. I wouldn't even try!


True, there were some tough RFEs, but if company and its lawyers are working together, USCIS has no grounds for "Failure to establish unavalibility" denial.

With so many graduates with B.S. and B.A. from US Universities in science, usually US Citizens or Permanent Residents, HOW IN THE WORLD do you manage to convince USCIS that there was no US work-eligible candidate to fill in the opening, so you have to beseech them for an H-1B?

There are A LOT LESS of Ph.D.s and M.S. graduates, plus those often need to meet specific qualifications for jobs, which is hardly the case for Bs... At least, in Chemistry, Biochemistry, and Molecular Biology. I don't know about other fields, but my guess would be the majority of them have just the same trend. Well, perhaps, some don't. You tell me!

[Alex_3112]

The corporates are unhappy with the H-1B visa situation WHATEVER the limit is - 65K or 120K. They want the cap GONE. Period.
Oh well, there would be quite a different kind of unhappiness.
Imagine you are going for a job that pays 65K. You'd like to get 120K, but you can swallow your pride. However, as you start working, you are getting actual paychecks for 45K! Would you keep quiet about it now? ;)

USCIS may try to keep visa numbers down all they want. But using H1B cap as pretext for not accepting the applications - while the cap is not actually filled - would be illegal.



What field? Were advanced degrees in such field typical?

In Chemistry (that I can totally speak of) even for an M.S. person it's hard to secure H-1B; for B.A. or B.S. I wouldn't even try!
IT = Information Technology

I imagine in science situation is quite different. Not so many openings for BS candidates and not so many for MS either. In IT, actually, we have to deal with the opposite type of requests: "Please prove that this position requires MS degree."

[Amex1]

USCIS may try to keep visa numbers down all they want. But using H1B cap as pretext for not accepting the applications - while the cap is not actually filled - would be illegal.

Yes, but if they have any legal chance to get around it - they WILL! They weren't super accomodating even before September 11, 2001. The worst of them was, actually, in 2002, when INS was reformed into BCIS under DHS. A lot of the INS workers were laid off (and in 2002, if your recall, the job situation was just as bad as now), so they were especially in the "denial mood".

Now there is this damn crisis - what would you expect? Extra kindness???


IT = Information Technology

I imagine in science situation is quite different. Not so many openings for BS candidates and not so many for MS either. In IT, actually, we have to deal with the opposite type of requests: "Please prove that this position requires MS degree."

OK. BTW, what is the meaning of such request? Do they imply that the candidate may be overqualified for the job? Well, this can hasppen, too! In science it's just not so frequent; usually the other way around...

[Alex_3112]

Yes, but if they have any legal chance to get around it - they WILL!
The legality of such practice is questionable at best. They may deny an application, fine, but they can not refuse to accept it without legal reason. In cap is not actually filled, then no such reason exist.

OK. BTW, what is the meaning of such request? Do they imply that the candidate may be overqualified for the job?
This goes back to "US candidates" clause. Suppose, company advertised for a position that requires MS degree, and nobody qualified responded. Then, USCIS suggests that the position actually requires BS degree, and some US candidates may become qualified.

[Amex1]

The legality of such practice is questionable at best. They may deny an application, fine, but they can not refuse to accept it without legal reason. In cap is not actually filled, then no such reason exist.

How often do you have to go to an immigration court to resolve such sort of matter?


This goes back to "US candidates" clause. Suppose, company advertised for a position that requires MS degree, and nobody qualified responded. Then, USCIS suggests that the position actually requires BS degree, and some US candidates may become qualified.

That's an example! See, they [the USCIS] do ALL THEY CAN to issue as few work visas as possible.

[Alex_3112]

How often do you have to go to an immigration court to resolve such sort of matter?
In wouldn't be an immigration court. This case would go straight to Federal court, or would be simply lobbied through the Congress.

That's an example! See, they [the USCIS] do ALL THEY CAN to issue as few work visas as possible.
So what? Your employer would like to pay you as little as possible. As long as it's legal, he can. But if he starts paying 45K instead of agreed upon 65K, he'll get into trouble.

[Amex1]

In wouldn't be an immigration court. This case would go straight to Federal court, or would be simply lobbied through the Congress.

I did not mean rules, regulations, quotas, etc. I meant an INDIVIDUAL case. If denied, have you, or anyone on behalf of your institution, ever tried to contest it in the local immigration court?


So what? Your employer would like to pay you as little as possible. As long as it's legal, he can.

I guess, it can't be less than the minimum salary as mandated by law... :white:


But if he starts paying 45K instead of agreed upon 65K, he'll get into trouble.

Can you sue the employer? (I thought all you can do in such situation is quit... Unless you have a specific contract with a certain salary specification, of course - then the emmployer can't pay you a penny less, I suppose)

[Alex_3112]

I did not mean rules, regulations, quotas, etc. I meant an INDIVIDUAL case. If denied, have you, or anyone on behalf of your institution, ever tried to contest it in the local immigration court?
Sure, this is common in cases like asylum.
Unfortunately, I have no first-hand knowledge of appeals in H1-B case denials - I have no knowledge about such denials either.


Unless you have a specific contract with a certain salary specification, of course - then the emmployer can't pay you a penny less, I suppose)
Cap of 65K visas set by the Congress is specific enough, right?

[Amex1]

Cap of 65K visas set by the Congress is specific enough, right?

And here is the loophole: by April 29, 2008, they had received a number of applications, far greater than 65,000. So, they randomly selected 65,000 of all applications, and... denied some (I don't know how many) on the grounds of "underqualified" or "overqualified". I don't know how many, but de-facto they issue less than the cap allows.

Such situation irritates me just as much as the stupid "section 214(b) of INA"

[zgorynych]

The legality of such practice is questionable at best. They may deny an application, fine, but they can not refuse to accept it without legal reason. In cap is not actually filled, then no such reason exist.

This goes back to "US candidates" clause. Suppose, company advertised for a position that requires MS degree, and nobody qualified responded. Then, USCIS suggests that the position actually requires BS degree, and some US candidates may become qualified.

Потому что правила приравнивают каждые 3 года опыта в сфере как 1 год учёбы. Т.е. если Мастерс занимает скажем 2 года то Бачелор + 6 лет опыта = эквивалент Мастеру. Примерно так. Unfortunately it works both ways whether petitioner likes it or not.

[Amex1]

Потому что правила приравнивают каждые 3 года опыта в сфере как 1 год учёбы. Т.е. если Мастерс занимает скажем 2 года то Бачелор + 6 лет опыта = эквивалент Мастеру. Примерно так. Unfortunately it works both ways whether petitioner likes it or not.

Don't get me started on the USCIS rules in general. They are sometiles... no, not just weird, but WILD! As I said in a parallel branch, it makes no sense that some DV-winner can become a US Immigrant, and an Assistant Professor at Stanford, holding O-1 visa, can't...

And BTW, whose "clone" am I? :spam:

[Alex_3112]

de-facto they issue less than the cap allows.

I agree, but the question is - how much less?
5%, even 10% below the cap is a technically reasonable number. Anything greater than that, and USCIS will get under scrutiny.

Don't assume that immigration practices is a one-way street and everybody tries to stop as many immigrants as possible. The number 65K is balanced between corporate needs and anti-immigration sentiment. If USCIS were to cheat corporations, it would be immediately brought to attention of the Congress.

Again, I'm speaking from the industry experience. In academy, where is no Cap, USCIS may feel free to deny anything.

[Amex1]

I agree, but the question is - how much less?
5%, even 10% below the cap is a technically reasonable number. Anything greater than that, and USCIS will get under scrutiny.

Don't assume that immigration practices is a one-way street and everybody tries to stop as many immigrants as possible. The number 65K is balanced between corporate needs and anti-immigration sentiment. If USCIS were to cheat corporations, it would be immediately brought to attention of the Congress.


That's the beauty of it (contrary to the Russian FMS): they can't afford to do absolutely ANYTHING.

I heard once or twice from the evil Directror of the Office of International Students and Scholars at the Scripps Research Institute (La Jolla, CA), in response to my aspirings for a better visa (I was afraid oj J-1; tried to get them to file for H-1B on my behalf): "You are not to tell the Government what to do. The Government is telling you what to do!"

I barely managed to restrain myself to respond: "And since when have YOU become the US Government, or a representative thereof?"

But anyway, you are right, they are somehow limited in affordability to evince their anti-immigration sentiment... However, as far as "...how much less?" goes, here is the thing: statistics deals with A NUMBER of people; [U]not with an individual case. Each human being is unique! So is the immigration case. (They even admit so, but often act otherwise)

When I studied Law of Probability, our lecturer started the first class with a phrase: "Remember once and for all: it makes no sense to apply the Theory of Probabilities to a single event."

BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what is "Туц Оукыун"?

[Alex_3112]

American government may be better that the other ones, but dealing with bureaucracy is always a pain.

My address is actually a riddle. Can you solve it? ;)
(It's not difficult, anyways)

[Amex1]

American government may be better that the other ones

No doubt! "Democracy is the worst type of government there is, except for all the rest." (Winston S. Churchill)


My address is actually a riddle. Can you solve it? ;)
(It's not difficult, anyways)

Tucson, AZ? :confused:

[OlyaNN]

Tucson, AZ? :confused:

New Jersey.....Phd :confused:

[Amex1]

New Jersey.....Phd :confused:

You think I am supposed to know all names of the US Cities in Russian?

I already abhor English words in Cyrillic letters that appear on this forum – please, SPARE ME!

[OlyaNN]

You think I am supposed to know all names of the US Cities in Russian?

Why not? :v: :grum:

P.S. было бы неплохо, чтоб претендентов на гринку проверяли на наличие чуства юмора....

[Amex1]

Why not? :v: :grum:

.

Cause I LOATH Russian langage! And I loath Russia too, as I said somewhere else in the forum.

I am a Texan NOW, and Texas HATES Russia! ;-)

[OlyaNN]

Cause I LOATH Russian langage! And I loath Russia too, as I said somewhere else in the forum.

Вы наверно хотели написать loathe? Ну ничего ничего... профессору простительно :vacation:


I am a Texan NOW, and Texas HATES Russia! ;-)

Рили? Хто сказал?
А я вам по секрету скажу. в Техасе не любят истеричных и нудных ...:popcorn:

[Amex1]

Вы наверно хотели написать loathe? Ну ничего ничего... профессору простительно :vacation:

Of course, "loathe". Thanks! That's what happens when one does not bother to paste an English text from a Word Document.

Any other typos you've noted?


Рили? Хто сказал?
А я вам по секрету скажу. в Техасе не любят истеричных и нудных мужичков...:popcorn:

(a) Похоже, с чувством юмора проблемы все-таки у Вас. Здешние американцы, некоторые родившиеся в Техасе, меня считают русским, и ничего плохого про меня не говорят (во всяком случае так, что я узнал бы)

(b) Моя жена из Калифорнии.

Примечание:

Все вышесказанное в ЭТОМ сообщении - кроме шуток.